Posted by Simply Incred-a-bull
on November 2, 2009, 12:52 pm
Just trying to logically debate the information presented in a previous post. I think this is a great topic for discussion- so please feel free to chim in.
First of all, let me say that historically speaking- people tend to attack CHANGE or something that is DIFFERENT than what they are used to. Over the years of being in this breed (8 years, to be exact) I have seen huge uproars over many topics- red noses, blue eyes, chocolate dogs, blue dogs, black dogs- hell, look at the board now- it seems like we keep having this discussion about the black dogs on the scene now- OVER and OVER. This board is almost a joke to read anymore because that seems like it is almost the entire basis of it's content.
Anyway, I'm not going to pretend that I don't have a vested interest in this topic- I do have 11 blue pups right now. BUT, with that being said, I also have been breeding/raising animals for the last 22 years (OMG- it doesn't seem possible that I actually just said that)and I do have a fair knowledge of color genetics.
"It may not be common in AB's (apparently it isnt in Kerry Blue Terriers and a few other breeds), but I dont know of any AB Breeders that have bred on blue long and heavy enough to find out. It may not show up for 2 or 3 years, and seems to be more prevalent in solid blue coated dogs. I know you have a white/blue litter on the ground so I can understand the reason to be defensive about this, but the "not true" comment above initially appears to be an un-educated opinion which can be easily disputed by doing a few internet searches, Not arguing, just my opinion and FYI. Would be happy to learn more about it, just post any helpful links of opposing opinions and research, otherwise I've been left with the impression it is a genetic propensity of a health issue. Most of the dermatology studies and articles follow a pattern suggesting it can be a potential problem in some breeds. "
Kim- I understand your wanting more info about this and possibly playing devil's advocate- but unless you have examples of blue coated ABs with skin maladities (more so than any OTHER color variation) then this article that you posted bears no weight with me.
The article itself states "How is colour dilution alopecia inherited?
The inheritance is unclear. The condition is thought to be due to the interaction of different factors at the gene position for colour. It is not simply determined by the genes at that locus, because not all dogs with colour dilution develop coat problems."
http://www.upei.ca/cidd/Diseases/dermatology/colour%20dilution%20alopecia.htm
There is no scientific PROOF that this theory is even correct- whoever wrote this article even says that it is THOUGHT to affect the genes for color, but also states that cannot be the only factor, since not all dilute dogs are affected. With this statement, doesn't it stand to reason that the poor skin condition could be related to an entire different gene altogether?
"Black hair follicular dysplasia (BHFD) is a rare canine hereditary skin disease characterized by lesions that are restricted to the dark hair areas of light colored dogs with darker spots. Clinical diagnosis is not usually difficult as it is a visually striking disease. Puppies appear normal at birth, but by 1 month of age begin losing black hairs only, progressing until all of these hairs are lost by 8-9 months of age. A genetic defect in melanin transfer and hair shaft formation is suggested to be the cause. Black haired areas of the head and neck are less severely affected. In black and red Doberman pinschers hair loss develops between 1 and 4 years of age, as in the Gordon setter, and hair loss is dorsally distributed on the lower back."
http://www.gopetsamerica.com/dog-health/black-hair-follicular-dysplasia.aspx
Correct me if I am wrong, but I didn't see the mention of blue here? To me, this says that your white AB with Black brindle patches would be just as susceptible to this rare canine hereditary skin disease as a blue? Or a chocolate brindle? Or any other color variation? Besides, if it a rare condition, why would this be the basis of our selection/elimination process unless the dog actually HAD the disease or was a known carrier? Please help me understand.
If you were to breed specifically on the blue color for several generations, the thing you would have to ask yourself is "Am I breeding inferior dogs together to achieve results based entirely on color?" There are not many blue dogs out there- since I have had my pups, I have noticed other people with blues posting their dogs for sale for twice the amount of the other pups in the litter or posting obviously inferior (pet quality) dogs with the term "blue" as the major marketing ploy. THIS is what is hurting the breed- but so are backyard breeders, people who cross other breeds into their dogs, hang papers, etc. It is impossible for us to "police" everything that others do, but I don't think that the blue AB should suffer because they are "different."
To date, I have NEVER seen a blue AB with skin issues. I have seen several dogs of OTHER colors with them, just like Jamie said. Kim you stated later that there are far more important issues within this breed, and I believe that to be accurate. Color should not be the basis for any breeding program, whether it be "for" or "against."
Blue Cannon was not selected as a stud due to his color- the color is just the "frosting" on the cake. (For the record, I saw this dog in person, and he does not have any skin issues.) I used him because I thought he would compliment Midori (who is also a dilute- a chocolate dilute- with no skin issues.) She needed a thicker chested, rounder headed, more extreme male to get her pups closer to what I prefer in an AB. I am not charging more for them than I have for any of my other litters, and I have never sold the blue pups I have produced for more than the other pups in the litter. Again, it is simply the "frosting." Do I like an AB in a pretty package? ABSOLUTELY! Am I going to choose dogs for my program based on merely that? Not a chance in hell! I want to breed the best dogs I can, and I don't care if they are black, blue, orange, chocolate or purple. 
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